During his two terms as governor of Arizona, Doug Ducey managed to pass a flat income tax with a rate of 2.5 percent, reform public sector pensions, universalize important school choice measures, reform occupational licensing rules, turn a budget deficit into a surplus, and substantially shrink the size of the government workforce. He also built a makeshift border wall out of shipping crates, pushed back on marijuana legalization, and was accused of doing both too much and too little by his constituents during COVID. Today, he runs Citizens for Free Enterprise.
In December, he received the Reason Foundation’s Savas Award for Privatization, which is given annually to someone who is advancing innovative ways to improve the provision and quality of public services by engaging the private sector. The former governor and Reason‘s Katherine Mangu-Ward sat down to talk about his worries about the future of the Republican Party, his commitment to fusionism, and why Arizona politicians are so weird.
Watch the full video here and find a condensed transcript below.
Katherine Mangu-Ward: What is it about Arizona that seems to just generate a kind of heterodox or unorthodox politician?
Doug Ducey: I don’t know. I think it’s a good question. I think maybe the fact that we’re the youngest state in the lower 48, that we’re a place where so many people came to live. So few people that are there today, were actually born there. So people make that decision. And then I think there’s something about the West and the spirit of Barry Goldwater, where it brings an independent-mindedness to it.
Mangu-Ward: Arizona has been red of late, but it’s trending blue. What do you attribute that to?
Ducey: Candidates matter. I would actually push back pretty hard. I was able to win in 2014 with the wind at my back and win by a larger margin in 2018 with the wind in my face in what was really a tough year for conservatives and Republicans around the country. And I was also able to capture 44 percent of the Hispanic vote against an opponent named David Garcia.
So if you have the right candidate, who’s talking about common sense kitchen table issues, and actually persuading the electorate, I think the state is still a center-right state. If you have somebody that wants to come and relitigate 2020 and only speak to the base, that’s a losing message.
Mangu-Ward: You campaigned in your first campaign on bringing taxes in Arizona as close as possible to zero, and you got to a 2.5 percent flat tax in the end. How did you do that?
Ducey: Persistence, persistence, persistence. It was our goal. Every year we lowered or simplified taxes and we actually had the left overreach and came into Arizona and I think deceived the voters with an initiative saying, “We can put 1 billion dollars additional into K-12 education and it won’t cost you any money, only the rich people.” And they took our 4.5 percent tax at the highest progressive level to 8. Now, 8 percent in Arizona would have been a cancer that would have metastasized over decades. That’s Bernie Sanders’ Vermont, Washington, D.C., or New York state. But it was popular. We worked hard to beat it. It was polling at about 65-35. We were able to drive it down to 51 percent on election day.
But when I was a young boy, there was a show on Saturday morning, Wild World of Sports, and they would talk about the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. We suffered about 18 months of the agony of defeat while we challenged the initiative in court and eventually got to our Supreme Court. And then we reformed taxes in the legislature in the interim. The law, the initiative, was struck down and we had reduced taxes along the way. So had we been successful on election day, taxes in Arizona today would be 4.5 percent. But because we had a bad result, we persisted in the legislature and we had a Supreme Court that was not going to let out-of-state interest deceive the voter. Today, we have the lowest flat tax in the nation. So I would say a combination of good planning, good timing, and good luck.
